look at the scandals in the irs, and the doj, now dhs and the nsa. these are hr issues. it starts at the top when the big brother bosses besides what rules, what laws they choose to follow that day. >> well, i know that it's -- and it's sometimes difficult to get rid of employees from is state government or the federal government, but if i ran that office or if i ran dhs and someone came to me and said we have someone who everybody's afraid of. the first thing i would say is why are you afraid of him? then i would look at the website. my next question is get him out of here. we'll pay him while he's at home to do some procedure to try to get rid of him. one of the remarks that was made, and i don't mean to insult postal workers, but they said they're afraid he's going to go postal in their house office, not to pick on postal workers, but there's a genuine fear in the environment while the government looks the other way. >> what are they afraid of, getting sued? i have fired people for firing people, i have been sued for firing those who have been engaged in nefarious act